Water pump boat replacement cost

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dgravlin

07-27-2010, 03:00 PM

Local MC dealer wants $700 to replace the fuel pump on my 2004 X2. Seems high for something that's easily accessible. Anybody had this done before on a similar boat?

Thanks.


Thrall

07-27-2010, 03:05 PM

There's a bunch of threads on fuel pumps in the Maint section, do a search.
Bottom line, $80-$100 get's you a new pump from the auto parts store, you have to pull the module and change out the pump. $4-500 gets you a new module from MC, you change. $7-800 gets you a new module installed by the dealer.


KBryant2007

07-27-2010, 03:05 PM

Mine went out 2 years ago, and it was $500, but was covered under warranty. My brother had an X-STAR that was 1 year out of warranty, and he asked the dealer to contact the factory and they picked up the tab. I would definitely ask your dealer about it considering the amount of problems they have had with fuel pump failures.


Local MC dealer wants $700 to replace the fuel pump on my 2004 X2. Seems high for something that's easily accessible. Anybody had this done before on a similar boat?

Thanks.

Tell them you want an itemized estimate and justification for that price. Ask if they're aware that a less expensive part has been shown to work.

If you get in their grill to aggressively, expect them to tell you to go somewhere else.


bobx1

07-27-2010, 03:06 PM

If you search the forums for "fuel pump", you will not be happy with what you read. $550-$700 would be about right from what I have read but I have never let my tank get below 3/8 full because of this forum. Some people have retro fitted other pumps for less.

Do the search and there are a lot of threads on costs, retros, and general complaints.

EDIT - sorry for the dupliate info - looks like others were posting at the same time and beat me to it....


ConneautLaker

07-27-2010, 03:07 PM

Local MC dealer wants $700 to replace the fuel pump on my 2004 X2. Seems high for something that's easily accessible. Anybody had this done before on a similar boat?

Thanks.

For a ProStar 197, my dealer charged a total of $570, including the pump, a service call, labor and tax.


1995Prostar190

07-27-2010, 03:19 PM

Fuel pump failure in boats, cars, or any other vehicle that has an in-tank pump with an EFI system is caused by running the vehicle either out of Gas, or Consistently below 1/8 tank. The pumps are kept cold by the fuel and when there is no fuel to keep it cool. The impeller veins in the pump burn up. Much like a raw water pump for your boats. So the large problem is due to the fact that people, myself and all my friends included wait until the boat is very low to fill up. So asking your dealer to help with this bill is a little selfish. Sorry to Say. If you caused the problem, Man up and pay the bill to fix it. I have had to do the pump on my boat, and my buddies boat, because I ran it out of gas when he let me borrow his boat.


FrankSchwab

07-27-2010, 03:30 PM

1995Prostar190 -

Designing an expensive part that fails rapidly in NORMAL situations is an engineering failure. Running car out of gas is a NORMAL situation that has occurred since the dawn of the automotive age; any automotive engineer should take that into account when designing the fuel supply system.

Continuing to use a part that has been shown to fail rapidly in NORMAL situations is a management failure. Whether you want to point at GM, Mastercraft, or whoever else, this is a problem that should have been resolved 10 years ago, rather than pointing at the user and saying "Ha, Ha, you used the part the way we knew you would, not the way we told you you had to, so pony up $700".

There is no engineering reason why an in-tank fuel pump should have to fail as a result of running out of gas. None, except it would cost a few bucks more to build a pump that didn't. This is an example of "externalized costs" - the manufacturer saves a few bucks, then makes the customer pay for the cost of replacing the improperly engineered part.

Fortunately, I have an external pump that doesn't seem to care much about running out of fuel.

/frank


73blue

07-27-2010, 03:31 PM

There's a bunch of threads on fuel pumps in the Maint section, do a search.
Bottom line, $80-$100 get's you a new pump from the auto parts store, you have to pull the module and change out the pump. $4-500 gets you a new module from MC, you change. $7-800 gets you a new module installed by the dealer.

This. Changed mine yesterday on a 2004 X-10 for $104 (Airtek E2044 from Advance). Pretty easy solution.


kal_dude

07-27-2010, 03:32 PM

i just changed mine in april (02 X-star) the fuel pump/sending unit with next day air, and tax was $461 and i changed it myself. should take you approx. 15 min. easy to do, just make sure you have the correct tool for getting the fuel line off the sending unit. also see if you can get a gauge to check fuel press after you are done to make sure its in spec.


CottagerGreg

07-27-2010, 03:40 PM

haha I routinely let me car show me 10kms till empty or even 0km's left... I like pushing the limit on my tank so I can see higher numbers on the trip computer :)

On my boat I rarely let it go below 1/4 tank due to the stories on the forum... I don't want to be stranded with a failed pump.


TallRedRider

07-27-2010, 03:45 PM

Fuel pump failure in boats, cars, or any other vehicle that has an in-tank pump with an EFI system is caused by running the vehicle either out of Gas, or Consistently below 1/8 tank. The pumps are kept cold by the fuel and when there is no fuel to keep it cool. The impeller veins in the pump burn up. Much like a raw water pump for your boats. So the large problem is due to the fact that people, myself and all my friends included wait until the boat is very low to fill up. So asking your dealer to help with this bill is a little selfish. Sorry to Say. If you caused the problem, Man up and pay the bill to fix it. I have had to do the pump on my boat, and my buddies boat, because I ran it out of gas when he let me borrow his boat.

I think it is not my fault. I ran my 90 gallon tank down to 15 gallons and my pump went out 2 weeks later. The module is installed in a portion of my tank that is 12 inches deep. (I measured it). The filter is about 1.5 inches tall and the pump sits on top of that and is about 4 inches long. It is oriented vertically. So the tip of the pump sits out of the gas when the tank is 5.5 inches deep (just barely under 1/2 tank). Poor design for sure. But glad I know how to fix it.

A big thanks to the site for giving me the information I needed to fix it without having to leave the boat at the shop for a week and for $700.
It was still frustrating to be towed in by an old Bayliner. There are probably pics of it on the Bayliner site right now;).


broncotw

07-27-2010, 04:10 PM

So my questions are:

1) What model years were these "faulty" fuel pumps installed in? Any particualr model(s)?

2) Has MasterCraft addressed these "faulty" fuel pumps? If so in what year?


TLR67

07-27-2010, 04:11 PM

They dont make em like they used too.... My Fuel Pump has over a 1000 Hours on it and is 20 Years Old...


Sodar

07-27-2010, 04:16 PM

I believe the '07 and newer have the new pumps. Maybe it was the '06 TT's that came out with them first.


rektek

07-27-2010, 10:17 PM

1995Prostar190 -

Designing an expensive part that fails rapidly in NORMAL situations is an engineering failure. Running car out of gas is a NORMAL situation that has occurred since the dawn of the automotive age; any automotive engineer should take that into account when designing the fuel supply system.

Continuing to use a part that has been shown to fail rapidly in NORMAL situations is a management failure. Whether you want to point at GM, Mastercraft, or whoever else, this is a problem that should have been resolved 10 years ago, rather than pointing at the user and saying "Ha, Ha, you used the part the way we knew you would, not the way we told you you had to, so pony up $700".

There is no engineering reason why an in-tank fuel pump should have to fail as a result of running out of gas. None, except it would cost a few bucks more to build a pump that didn't. This is an example of "externalized costs" - the manufacturer saves a few bucks, then makes
the customer pay for the cost of replacing the improperly engineered part.

Fortunately, I have an external pump that doesn't seem to care much about running out of fuel.

/frank when the engine stops running these pumps shut off after x- amount of secs. They don't continue to run without the engine running.



Frank is right, the pumps premature failure are due to poor quality. If this was a car manufacturer there would be a class action lawsuit and a recall to follow. Mastercraft is so small they fly under the radar


when the engine stops running these pumps shut off after x- amount of secs. They don't continue to run without the engine running.



Frank is right, the pumps premature failure are due to poor quality. If this was a car manufacturer there would be a class action lawsuit and a recall to follow. Mastercraft is so small they fly under the radar

There's no time period between the engine cutoff and the pump stopping. As soon as the ECM stops getting tach signal, it stops latching the fuel pump relay. The problem is that the impeller needs to fit the housing with almost no space around it. Any gaps will result in the fuel bypassing the impeller and a loss of pressure/volume.


FrankSchwab

07-28-2010, 12:30 AM

But it was a car manufacturer also; Suburbans around the turn of the century had exactly the same set of problems for a number of years, if the forums I read were correct.

/frank


timvan

07-28-2010, 06:47 AM

it wouldnt be too hard to fab up a plate with a pickup and return on it to go where the pump is, then use a external pump and filter... then you could run it dry all that you wanted


it wouldnt be too hard to fab up a plate with a pickup and return on it to go where the pump is, then use a external pump and filter... then you could run it dry all that you wanted

Even external pumps don't like to be run dry. Also, the Coast Guard has specific regs for what kind of fuel line is used and how they're connected to the pump.


wheeler

07-28-2010, 08:27 AM

So my questions are:

1) What model years were these "faulty" fuel pumps installed in? Any particualr model(s)?

2) Has MasterCraft addressed these "faulty" fuel pumps? If so in what year?

Most of the newer 2000+ or so in tank fuel pumps are all faulty, IMHO....don't run fuel below 1/4 tank...keep an extra pump in glove box $60-$80 from napa. Can change out a pump in 15 minutes with an allen wrench, a fuel line puller, phillips, flat head and some rags.

And to answer #2...are you kidding me? We are still trying to get them to acknowledge the faulty vinyl interior stitching on 2002-2004 interiors.....I justpaid over $1,500 for new skins last year....already pulling apart.


The pumps that failed and were sent back to MC usually work fine. These pumps tend to be fine in gas, just not gas with all kinds of added chemicals. The water that accumulates in gas that has ethanol causes many problems and what we see is a large part of this. Cars have closes, pressurized fuel systems and don't have the opportunity to collect a lot of water and boats CAN'T have a pressurized system.

The vinyl issue was dealt with almost two years ago and people still don't want to accept the cause. THE EPA MANDATED THAT THE VINYL MANUFACTURED IN THE US CAN'T HAVE CERTAIN CHEMICALS IN IT AND THOSE CHEMICALS WERE NEEDED FOR THE MATERIAL'S DURABILITY. If any boat manufacturer had skins that didn't tear, it was because they had a source of material that was on-hand, or they had them made outside of the US.


timvan

07-28-2010, 09:35 AM

Even external pumps don't like to be run dry. Also, the Coast Guard has specific regs for what kind of fuel line is used and how they're connected to the pump.

no pumps like to run dry, but the high end external pumps have heat sinks on them..

Im pretty sure that one could manufacture the same tube and clamp system thats used now...if not a "-an" fitting would work

Would be nice to have a upgrade option


no pumps like to run dry, but the high end external pumps have heat sinks on them..

Im pretty sure that one could manufacture the same tube and clamp system thats used now...if not a "-an" fitting would work

Would be nice to have a upgrade option

But a manufacturer can't make their boats with a high-pressure pump that's not located on the motor, without hard lines. If the CG sees it on anyones' boat, they will tow it in.


TLR67

07-28-2010, 09:52 AM

^ I dont think he has to worry about the Coast Gaurd on Lake Allatoona....


bobx1

07-28-2010, 10:38 AM

The pumps that failed and were sent back to MC usually work fine. These pumps tend to be fine in gas, just not gas with all kinds of added chemicals. The water that accumulates in gas that has ethanol causes many problems and what we see is a large part of this.

Jim - my pump has not failed but I pull over every 2.5 hours and top it off (thanks to this forum). After reading your comment above (along with various regs from the Coast Guard and EPA), are their similar issues with the other major tow boat manufacturers pumps?

Signed,

Curious with a 13 Gallon Tank


Sodar

07-28-2010, 10:49 AM

The pumps that failed and were sent back to MC usually work fine. These pumps tend to be fine in gas, just not gas with all kinds of added chemicals. The water that accumulates in gas that has ethanol causes many problems and what we see is a large part of this. Cars have closes, pressurized fuel systems and don't have the opportunity to collect a lot of water and boats CAN'T have a pressurized system.

The vinyl issue was dealt with almost two years ago and people still don't want to accept the cause. THE EPA MANDATED THAT THE VINYL MANUFACTURED IN THE US CAN'T HAVE CERTAIN CHEMICALS IN IT AND THOSE CHEMICALS WERE NEEDED FOR THE MATERIAL'S DURABILITY. If any boat manufacturer had skins that didn't tear, it was because they had a source of material that was on-hand, or they had them made outside of the US.

How does a burnt up pump work fine by the time it gets to the factory? Isn't the overheating pump trash once it over heats?

Also, the fact is that fuel with these added chemicals is what is available and at the pumps. It seems that they need to design to what is readily available... not giving the answer "your pumps failed because they were not used in the most ideal condition... the condition we designed to".


Jim - my pump has not failed but I pull over every 2.5 hours and top it off (thanks to this forum). After reading your comment above (along with various regs from the Coast Guard and EPA), are their similar issues with the other major tow boat manufacturers pumps?

Signed,

Curious with a 13 Gallon Tank

MC was the first to see the wisdom of using the pump-in-tank. It solved a lot of problems in how cars ran and it allowed fuel injection to advance. However, the EPA, in their infinite wisdom, changes the gas formulations like some people change their grundies- whenever they feel like it. This means nobody knows what kind of gas we'll be using in a year, or more. My friend who worked for GM in their V8 Power train Development used to complain about this all the time. They just went with their best guess and if they needed to change something later, they would. Cars don't have fuel that's in contact with the outside air, and certainly not sitting under a cover that acts like a greenhouse- the sun makes it hot, causing the gas and vapors to expand and then contract when it cools. This draws warm, moist air into the tank and when it reaches a high enough saturation point, it experiences 'phase separation'. These impellers are made to work in gas, not water. Even E-85 cars have completely different fuel systems from non-ethanol burning cars. Ethanol is hard on some materials but water on a metal impeller is bad, too. Seals and plastic can deform, causing the issues we see. Once that fuel is out of the pump and it can go back to its original shape/size, it works fine. For a while. In straight gas, they haven't had failures unless the tank was run dry more than a couple of times.

Unfortunately, being more advanced bit MC on the asss, big time.


brucemac

07-28-2010, 06:20 PM

i'd like to put together a "repair kit" as inexpensivly as possible in the hopes i can salvage a vacation should my pump fail. i don't typically run under a half a tank unless i'm on vacation which is when i'm usually far from a marina. that usually only happens 2 or 3 times a year, but ironically those are the times i'm far from home and i'd really want to have a repair kit with the necessary tools available to give a go at fixing the problem. can anybody help me with that?


wheeler

07-28-2010, 07:12 PM

I would hit NAPA and buy any one of the 3 or 4 pumps listed on this site, Airtek, NAPA, even GM has their own. All range from $60-$100 dollars. I have an x10, my fuel pump is accessible from under center rear bench seat cushion. Buy an set of allen wrenches, a fuel line puller ( i think blue if you buy the cheap plastic kind) but if you buy one of the metal swivel set kind it will have a 4 size all-in-one. There is 4 phillips screws that hold the pumps plastic retainer, 2 phillips for the slider mechanism, and a crimp on the hose that attaches to the pump.

You may not be able to re-use the crimp, so buy a regular small hose clamp. flat head screwdriver will work to install that.

You will pull hose off pump gently, these hoses seem to be hard to find, one end is flaired larger than the other, so be gentle....

Have some paper towels handy. Hopefully you will be low on fuel when you have to make a change on the water. Keep some dishwashing soap handy to wash your arms down if not (no smoking in the boat please).....

Other than that, not too many other tools are needed for the fix.

Hope that helps.

I am on my third pump....I'm a pro at it!...lol!


wheeler

07-28-2010, 07:20 PM

I would also include a relay switch in your repair kit. There are three located at the back of the motor. They are all the same, one extra switch will be a replacement for either of the three.

If, for some reason you boat refuses to start, it turns over, and you have fuel, charged batteries, kill switch is good, etc, etc....then there is a good chance that one of the relay switches may have gone bad....for $14 it may be the fix....can't hurt.


brucemac

07-28-2010, 07:40 PM

thanks wheeler, i'll find some time to dig up the old threads again. thanks again, i appreciate your time.


wheeler

07-28-2010, 11:28 PM

The pumps that failed and were sent back to MC usually work fine. These pumps tend to be fine in gas, just not gas with all kinds of added chemicals. The water that accumulates in gas that has ethanol causes many problems and what we see is a large part of this. Cars have closes, pressurized fuel systems and don't have the opportunity to collect a lot of water and boats CAN'T have a pressurized system.

The vinyl issue was dealt with almost two years ago and people still don't want to accept the cause. THE EPA MANDATED THAT THE VINYL MANUFACTURED IN THE US CAN'T HAVE CERTAIN CHEMICALS IN IT AND THOSE CHEMICALS WERE NEEDED FOR THE MATERIAL'S DURABILITY. If any boat manufacturer had skins that didn't tear, it was because they had a source of material that was on-hand, or they had them made outside of the US.

Although the vinyl issue may have been dealt with almost two years ago (2008), that still does not fix the problem with those who have spent $40,000 + dollars for a boat with crap interior which we will continue to have to replace. June of this year (2010) was the cut off date to be able to buy OEM original interior from M/C that will match.

In other words......the $1500+ dollars I spent last year, to replace the faulty interior, they sent me the same faulty interior...just newer....how 'bout them apples! Same splitting interior....I call bull-crap!

I have had a 1993....no problems, 1997, no problems...2004 = crap! bad choice.....

On the other hand, the newer interior (2005 and up) are sweet...same damn boat....send me those skins at your cost!!!!!......why send me 2004 crap skins when you can send me 2005 skins that are not faulty, the reason????.....profit!!!!...just like the faulty fuel pump!


wheeler

07-29-2010, 07:52 AM

After reading my above reply this morning, I see that I came off as beeing a wee bit "rude" :D

My apologies.....

vinyl still sucks tho! :(


PaulW

07-29-2010, 08:56 AM

Hey Wheeler,
Were are these switches?
Thanks
Paul


Hey Wheeler,
Were are these switches?
Thanks
Paul

They're not manual switches, they're relays- usually Bosch. They can be bought at any car audio/security shop. Look for three black cubes (about 1-1/4") with a group of wires attached, near the ECM.


broncotw

07-29-2010, 10:41 AM

In any event, this is a failure of engineering and customer service as well… If a company has a continuing problem such as the “fuel pump” or “vinyl stitching” issues and they continue to NOT correct the problem(s) then ultimately this is a failure – both from a customer service and engineering perspective.

Every company invests tons of money into research and development and these same companies also employ high dollar "bean counters" who forecast what it would cost to fix the problems versus “NOT” fixing these problems. It’s pretty obvious what direction has been taken here! At the end of the day it’s ALL about the money….

I am not saying mistakes will not be made because they will. I think that for the money people pay for these vessels, if a problem such as the “fuel pump” or “vinyl stitching” issues arise – the company should correct the problems ASAP. The problems should be addressed and the next years models should have the new corrections. The company should also stand behind the faulty products and work with the customers to repair or replace these faulty parts.

To continue to produce faulty parts and not correct the problem(s) is inexcusable!!!


In any event, this is a failure of engineering and customer service as well… If a company has a continuing problem such as the “fuel pump” or “vinyl stitching” issues and they continue to NOT correct the problem(s) then ultimately this is a failure – both from a customer service and engineering perspective.

Every company invests tons of money into research and development and these same companies also employ high dollar "bean counters" who forecast what it would cost to fix the problems versus “NOT” fixing these problems. It’s pretty obvious what direction has been taken here! At the end of the day it’s ALL about the money….

I am not saying mistakes will not be made because they will. I think that for the money people pay for these vessels, if a problem such as the “fuel pump” or “vinyl stitching” issues arise – the company should correct the problems ASAP. The problems should be addressed and the next years models should have the new corrections. The company should also stand behind the faulty products and work with the customers to repair or replace these faulty parts.

To continue to produce faulty parts and not correct the problem(s) is inexcusable!!!

OK, how about if they replace all of the skins and include the labor, replace all of the fuel pumps and give all of the customers $1000 for their trouble? Then, you can go out and buy a Nautique, Supra/Moomba, Malibu or some other brand because MC won't be in business after this. With the economy the way it has been for the last 5 years, it's about survival, not prosperity. Nobody needs a boat like this unless they use it for their business. You obviously think they're making money, hand over fist, but that's bot the case.Look at the manufacturers that went out of business- Genmar was one of the tightest run corporations in the industry and they closed a lot of companies.


TX.X-30 fan

07-29-2010, 05:07 PM

Although the vinyl issue may have been dealt with almost two years ago (2008), that still does not fix the problem with those who have spent $40,000 + dollars for a boat with crap interior which we will continue to have to replace. June of this year (2010) was the cut off date to be able to buy OEM original interior from M/C that will match.

In other words......the $1500+ dollars I spent last year, to replace the faulty interior, they sent me the same faulty interior...just newer....how 'bout them apples! Same splitting interior....I call bull-crap!

I have had a 1993....no problems, 1997, no problems...2004 = crap! bad choice.....

On the other hand, the newer interior (2005 and up) are sweet...same damn boat....send me those skins at your cost!!!!!......why send me 2004 crap skins when you can send me 2005 skins that are not faulty, the reason????.....profit!!!!...just like the faulty fuel pump!





Great post an dead on accurate, I was screwed once at 60k and lucky you got it twice and the second time you paid and said thank-you very much...............:mad:


broncotw

07-29-2010, 10:17 PM

OK JimN: Let me put this as simple as I can.....

Customer with NO MasterCraft = Ski Nautique, Malibu, Supra, etc. etc. etc....

MasterCraft with NO customers = NO MasterCraft! PERIOD!

First rule of ANY successful business is the customer is ALWAYS right! Take care of the customer at ALL costs for he will in turn feed your business!

Better men than me have proven this simple principle over and over and OVER!


OK JimN: Let me put this as simple as I can.....

Customer with NO MasterCraft = Ski Nautique, Malibu, Supra, etc. etc. etc....

MasterCraft with NO customers = NO MasterCraft! PERIOD!

First rule of ANY successful business is the customer is ALWAYS right! Take care of the customer at ALL costs for he will in turn feed your business!

Better men than me have proven this simple principle over and over and OVER!

The customer is NOT always right. You're telling me that a customer who makes bizarre and unreasonable demands is right? BS! People like that can KMA and while many get their way, it's the reasonable dealer who will win out because word gets out about customers like that. If a customer comes in with a walk-through window that was pushed past the support because they were hammered and someone thought it would be funny to hit the throttle when a drunk guy was standing in the bow, then the boat owner gets in a shouting match with the dealer because they don't want their wife to know what happened- you think that guy is right to demand the repair under warranty?

MC wasn't the only company who used that vinyl but they're the only one we see here getting nailed for it. If you have a beef with MC, take it to them but, having done upholstery/knowing upholsterers/having talked extensively with my upholstery supplier, the problem came from not being able to predict how the material would hold up. If someone orders new skins and doesn't discuss the material, that's not a good way to make sure the new materials are used (which I think should have happened, personally). If new materials are available and the company won't lose their asss by using them, I think it's a decent way to take care of the customer but if the shop that produces the replacements doesn't tell MC what they're using, that's a lack of communication that can't be allowed.


broncotw

07-29-2010, 11:35 PM

What I meant is if a company (take for instance MC in regards to the fuel pump issue) knows there is a problem then they should correct the problem ASAP and work with the customers to fix the problem as opposed to continuing to sell the boats with faulty fuel pumps.....

Sure you can defeat the phrase “the customer is always right” by throwing out bizarre, unreasonable, and other examples that are out of left field, of when the customer is truly wrong…. So, please let me rephrase this….. GENERALLY, a happy customer is one that will continue to buy your products, spread the great experiences they have had with your products, and thus self promote your products… There is NO better form of advertising than a happy and satisfied customer…. So, in applying this theory – would it not make all the sense in the world to make the customers happy and satisfied?

My point was in regards to issues that seem to be reoccurring..... Take for instance again the fuel pump issue! It's almost EVERY few days there is a new post from some member with another fuel pump issue..... What more compelling evidence do you need than that? The evidence is RIGHT here on this forum.....

Just curious -- has MC or any other manufacturer ever had a call back similar to the way automobile manufactures have call backs?


TallRedRider

07-30-2010, 01:17 AM

Here is the simplest way I can put it.

I am interested in selling my boat because I have arrived at the conclusion that MC has as many problems with their boats as anyone else. My previous boat (not even considered in the 'big 3') had the same number of problems as this one...actually less. So why should I be paying more for an MC?

That is just the conclusion I have arrived at based on my ownership experience. Corporate could have changed that perception, but has chosen not to. Maybe they could not afford to, I dunno.

I expected better when I moved to MC, but it did not happen. I could make a pretty long list of items, but the straw that broke the camel's back was my fuel pump stranding me at the lake on a windy day, blowing me toward the cliffs. Luckily, there was some slope to the underwater shoreline and my anchor caught me about 15 feet from shore before I had to either let myself be blown into the cliffs, or fight the whitecaps with my legs between the boat and the rock wall.


Sours: http://teamtalk.mastercraft.com/archive/index.php/t-37026.html

Supra Forums > Supra Boats > Service & Repair > Impeller replacement/2 hours labor charge?


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View Full Version : Impeller replacement/2 hours labor charge?



I called my dealer to find out what they charge to replace the impeller, they quoted me 2 hours of labor which is $220. Does this sound right? I have seen posts on many boards about this being a 15-30 minute job? even on the newer CAT ETX V-drive motors. I kind of feel like they are way over on there time allotment.


I called my dealer to find out what they charge to replace the impeller, they quoted me 2 hours of labor which is $220. Does this sound right? I have seen posts on many boards about this being a 15-30 minute job? even on the newer CAT ETX V-drive motors. I kind of feel like they are way over on there time allotment.

Very first time I did mine it took less than 30 min on a 2006 21V. Sounds llike the dealer is trying to pad his $$$ for a slow economy. Maybe he's planning on taking the entire pump assembly out, but I still think 2 hours is still very inflated for that from what I've read here.


iwakeboard

02-11-2010, 03:18 PM

It literally took my tech less than 5 minutes to change the impellar on my boat, with me standing there with him. That's absolutely ridiculous.


TayTay

02-11-2010, 04:20 PM

It took me about 5 minutes to take mine out this fall for winterizing, figure another few minutes to put it back in. IT definetly should take two hours. I dont maybe they charge for the time it takes to move the boat around, test run the boat after the change it, etc. Personally I think it is BS to charge that much.


87SunSportMikeyD

02-11-2010, 04:56 PM

$200 for impellor, $300 to winterize, it's a game to them. DIY buddy!


It literally took my tech less than 5 minutes to change the impellar on my boat, with me standing there with him. That's absolutely ridiculous.

It gets worse, I called another local dealer (where I purchased my boat, they dont sell Supra anymore) but they quoted me $315 with the impeller. That just seems crazy, I am definitely going to try and tackle it myself. I already have the impeller. Looks like 4 bolts, remove the cover/gasket, remove impeller and reverse on the install??? It does look like there is not much clearance with the CAT motor/V-drive and exhaust manifold, this might be the headache factor.


It literally took my tech less than 5 minutes to change the impellar on my boat, with me standing there with him. That's absolutely ridiculous.

Was this with the new CAT ETX motor? direct or v-drive? I can see how it would be extremely easy on a direct drive, because of the easy access. The CAT ETX motor does not have much clearance around the impeller cover.


chautauquasun

02-11-2010, 07:35 PM

2 hours is over the top. I had never changed an impeller in my life and it took me maybe a total of 30 minutes to remove the water pump, put the new impeller in and reconnect the water pump. Now I did buy my impeller at the marina. Thats where they got me on my job. Hit me with a $75 charge for a part you can get for 25-30 on line. But really didnt have a choice at that point. I know that I will be ordering online next time.


87SunSportMikeyD

02-11-2010, 07:49 PM

[QUOTE=fman]Looks like 4 bolts, remove the cover/gasket, remove impeller and reverse on the install??? It QUOTE]

You got it. Where is our pictorial thread to be stickied here???


87SunSportMikeyD

02-11-2010, 07:55 PM

Links, but not the one I wanted...
http://moomba.com/msgboard/showthread.php?t=5369&highlight=impellor&page=2
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/329352.html


mapleleaf

02-11-2010, 08:42 PM

I'm think'in boats are a luxury item??? Sorry Travis, they got all our numbers....


I'm think'in boats are a luxury item??? Sorry Travis, they got all our numbers....

I have no problem paying someone to do a job, but when they are over charging people it makes me never want to give them a dime of my money :(


mapleleaf

02-11-2010, 11:45 PM

Oh I hear ya, paid $350 for points and a fuel filter last year, for some reason he had to water test it when he was done, funny he didn't tell me that would be a part of the job when I dropped the boat off....Cost me more for him to take the boat to the lake then the actual repair!!! This is a guy who repaired my granddad's boats and has been wintering a 9.9 Evinrude for 35 yrs for us...
It was hard to swallow, my customers know what I'm doing and billing for BEFORE I do it...

side note: there's no way the 9.9 is worth anything close to what we've paid to keep it alive through him!!!!!


Good news, I replaced my Impeller today! It took about 45 minutes, but I could probably do it in 15 next time. There was some tight working conditions with the CAT ETX exhaust but it was do-able. I also had to soak the impeller with some liquid wrench for a few minutes to let it break free. I grabbed it with some needle nose vice grips, it took a few tugs and finally broke free after soaking it. Its hard to get leverage or see what you are doing with the Vdrive impeller. I took a mirror to see the inside of the housing.

This was good for me to do this because I never realized the inside of the impeller housing was not perfectly round and a portion of the veins squeeze up against the inside of the housing. I can see how you can burn an impeller up quickly without any water going through it.

I did mark the cover with a marker to make sure I put the cover back on correctly after removing it. I also noticed the 4 bolts were not on that tight at all, they are brass and can strip easily, so I only went a little past snug.

All in all, pretty easy, my original impeller with 150 hours was in good shape, but always good for some peace of mind. I will probably stay on the every other year impeller change or 150 hours.

Thanks to everyone for the help and advice, much appreciated :)

Travis...


cmtaylor777

02-12-2010, 12:26 AM

I got the same load of crap from a mechanic. I actually had the mechanic bring me the old impeller when he was doing the winterization and said, "you should replace this." I said ok and asked him what he would charge and he stated 1 hour plus the price of parts.
Now I ask this.....Doesn't he have to put my old impeller back in? Either way he is already doing the work but he wanted to hit me with the extra labor. He could have gained more of my future business by just being cool about it and replace it for the cost of the part. I then simply told him "thanks, I will replace it when I get home."


I got the same load of crap from a mechanic. I actually had the mechanic bring me the old impeller when he was doing the winterization and said, "you should replace this." I said ok and asked him what he would charge and he stated 1 hour plus the price of parts.
Now I ask this.....Doesn't he have to put my old impeller back in? Either way he is already doing the work but he wanted to hit me with the extra labor. He could have gained more of my future business by just being cool about it and replace it for the cost of the part. I then simply told him "thanks, I will replace it when I get home."

Its pretty disappointing to see mechanics try and take advantage of boat owners. I am glad I am doing all of my maintenance on my own, and I dont have to take it down to the dealer every time. Plus, I would rather keep other peoples hands off my boat, at least when I do it I know exactly what was done.


No one touches my baby..no one..


87SunSportMikeyD

02-12-2010, 12:18 PM

good job fman.


Okie Boarder

02-12-2010, 01:42 PM

Nice work. I did mine last year. It's a little easier with a DD. I'm debating on whether I want to do it again this year. It's a cheap part and doesn't tke much time to replace, but one going out could ruin a day or weekend on the lake.


myturndad

02-12-2010, 02:24 PM

this makes it so much easier on a vdrive.


this makes it so much easier on a vdrive.

Does this tool work on the CAT ETX motor without removing the exhaust muffler? I did not have much clearance at all with the exhaust muffler right behind the cap of the impeller housing.


good job fman.

Oh, I forgot to mention my aching back!!!! Getting old sucks! My back definitely does not like being hunched over the engine to long! Its a good thing I can stand straight up wakeboarding.... :)


mapleleaf

02-12-2010, 07:58 PM

Oh, I forgot to mention my aching back!!!! Getting old sucks! My back definitely does not like being hunched over the engine to long! Its a good thing I can stand straight up wakeboarding.... :)

Its a good thing you did it before the season started...recovery time!!!!
Nice work on the repair.....


beast 496

02-13-2010, 07:25 PM

Labor charges start from the start of the procedure, move boat into shop, uncover boat, remove all customers accy's from engine compartment area, ie, floaty's, life jackets, ski's ect., Replace impellor assy, check for missing blades, if some are missing locating the blades, flushing out hoses, test running on hose or in water. install all of customers accy's, recover boat. Minimum charge is 1 hr, which is usually the charge, $60 to $75 should be normal. Labor rates over $100 are rediculas. Hrs. charged should not be judged, but actual cost of doing the job. Impellor changes for Inboards are usually around $100.00. V Drives, $125. Al


Labor charges start from the start of the procedure, move boat into shop, uncover boat, remove all customers accy's from engine compartment area, ie, floaty's, life jackets, ski's ect., Replace impellor assy, check for missing blades, if some are missing locating the blades, flushing out hoses, test running on hose or in water. install all of customers accy's, recover boat. Minimum charge is 1 hr, which is usually the charge, $60 to $75 should be normal. Labor rates over $100 are rediculas. Hrs. charged should not be judged, but actual cost of doing the job. Impellor changes for Inboards are usually around $100.00. V Drives, $125. Al

I probably would have scheduled an appt for $125, but $315???? I know I purchased the impeller for $35. Labor rates in California are $110/hr. And they wonder why more people are leaving the state than moving in right now!!!!


beast 496

02-14-2010, 10:44 AM

I recieved a copy of a letter sent to all of the customers of a local Marina. Basically it was a cover letter stating how bad the economy is and how much the new labor rates will be this year. Now this is a marina which stores around 1,000 boats has 4 or 5 service tech's 2010 labor rate are $107.50. This is not a time to raise your rates on already dead economy. I shortly afterwards sent out my letter stating I will hold my rates at $65.00 per hr. I understand how hard it has been in the last couple years. I know I will pick up some referal's from existing customers. Marine rates are getting out of hand. We all go to the same service seminars from Indmar, Mercruiser, and Volvo. Usually the smaller shops, such as mine, the techs are much better qualified, also. Al


iwakeboard

02-14-2010, 12:06 PM

Good news, I replaced my Impeller today! It took about 45 minutes, but I could probably do it in 15 next time. There was some tight working conditions with the CAT ETX exhaust but it was do-able. I also had to soak the impeller with some liquid wrench for a few minutes to let it break free. I grabbed it with some needle nose vice grips, it took a few tugs and finally broke free after soaking it. Its hard to get leverage or see what you are doing with the Vdrive impeller. I took a mirror to see the inside of the housing.

This was good for me to do this because I never realized the inside of the impeller housing was not perfectly round and a portion of the veins squeeze up against the inside of the housing. I can see how you can burn an impeller up quickly without any water going through it.

I did mark the cover with a marker to make sure I put the cover back on correctly after removing it. I also noticed the 4 bolts were not on that tight at all, they are brass and can strip easily, so I only went a little past snug.

All in all, pretty easy, my original impeller with 150 hours was in good shape, but always good for some peace of mind. I will probably stay on the every other year impeller change or 150 hours.

Thanks to everyone for the help and advice, much appreciated :)

Travis...


FMAN, congrats, sorry I just saw your question today. I have the 351 Indmar V-Drive, so it's in the back of the boat. Be careful with those little brass screws when you change that impellar, they're easy to lose and hard to find!!! When I replaced my raw water pump this winter I kept my old ones just in case.

If your impeller looks like it's in good shape hold on to it for "just in case" situations. My tech recommended putting it in a zip loc bag with a ton of vasoline.

Again, congrats, saved you some good change.


iwakeboard

02-14-2010, 12:07 PM

Also, thinking about it, I had taken the "riders locker" out of my 24V for the winter, I imagine it would have taken alot longer or been alot harder to get to with that in there. Then again, I probably would have pulled it out if it were there when I wanted to change the impeller/raw water pump.


FMAN, congrats, sorry I just saw your question today. I have the 351 Indmar V-Drive, so it's in the back of the boat. Be careful with those little brass screws when you change that impellar, they're easy to lose and hard to find!!! When I replaced my raw water pump this winter I kept my old ones just in case.

If your impeller looks like it's in good shape hold on to it for "just in case" situations. My tech recommended putting it in a zip loc bag with a ton of vasoline.

Again, congrats, saved you some good change.

Great idea, I think I will put in the zip-loc and keep it on the boat, it appears to be in good shape with no missing veins and cracking.


michael hunter

02-15-2010, 11:30 AM

I agree with Beast now is a bad time to raise labor rates. Maybe their trying to make up for poor showroom sales. Getting and keeping a good reputation in business is very hard. Nothing ends a business relationship faster then overcharging and getting caught. Now is the time to hunker down and do quality work at a fair price. In the long run it will pay you back 10 fold. I live in the same area as my customers. It sure feels nice to have a positive greeting when I see them at a restaurant or store rather than having to hide knowing I probubly screwed them.


87SunSportMikeyD

02-15-2010, 01:22 PM

Beast THANK YOU for being a considerate and upstanding repairperson!!!! :)


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Water Pump Impeller Service

If cooling water is the life blood of the engine, the impeller is its heart. A regular checkup of the water pump is just what the doctor ordered.

Selection of Raw-Water Pumps

A selection of common raw-water pumps. From left to right: Jabsco spindle-driven pump from a Perkins engine, a Volvo model, and a Johnson gear-driven pump. All of these can be serviced in the way described in this article.

Changing a water-pump impeller is normally a straightforward job that every boater should be able to tackle. Impeller pumps are far more common than you might imagine and are used for everything aboard from bilge and shower pumps to freshwater and seawater washdowns. Generally, they can be relied upon to work without incident for many months or even years, but that doesn't mean they're maintenance free.

Tip

If the inside of the cover plate shows wear, try reversing it, as most are symmetrical. Clean off any paint, and polish the plate with fine sandpaper before refitting. This can help extend the life of the pump by several years.

One of the most important of these pumps is for raw-water cooling on an inboard engine. Should this pump fail or work at less-than-full capacity, overheating may result, causing damage to the engine. It's a great idea to get into the habit of looking at the exhaust outlet after starting the engine to make sure water is flowing. All engines differ, but if you make a quick visual check each time the engine is fired up, you'll be more likely to quickly spot something amiss: Reduced water flow, excessive steam, or a dry, throaty exhaust note is a sure sign that something isn't working as it should.

I like to change my raw-water impeller every winter no matter how little I may have used the boat during the season. This is largely a preventive maintenance issue, and I then can relax knowing that when the boat goes back into the water, the water pump is in tiptop condition. Often water pumps are ignored for too long and are apt to fail at the most critical times.

  1. STEP 1

    This typical setup is a Yanmar 3GM engine with the raw-water pump driven by a belt from the end of the crankshaft. All engines vary to some extent, and some pumps are driven by gears or pinion shafts; these are bolted directly to the engine.

    Raw-Water Pump

    Depending on the engine/pump configuration, it can often be easier to remove the pump from the engine to change the impeller. One important caveat here is to shut off the water at the seacock. Undo the pipe clamps, and after removing the securing nuts and bolts, pull the pump clear.


  2. STEP 2

    With the pump on the bench or saloon table, undo the bolts or screws that hold the cover plate in place.

    Removing Bolts from Cover

    These are often small, so it's a good idea to store them temporarily in a cup or can, as they can easily roll into the bilge, never to be seen again.


  3. STEP 3

    With all the bolts removed, lift off the cover plate. If it's stuck in place, insert the blade of a sharp knife into the joint to pop it free or try gently tapping the edge of the plate with a small rubber mallet or the wooden end of a screwdriver.

    Removing Pump Cover Without Damaging O-Ring

    These tricks help you avoid cutting the O-ring seal that may be used instead of the paper gasket on some pumps.


  4. STEP 4

    I like to use a set of channel lock pliers for removing the old impeller.

    Removing Old Impeller

    Grasp the central portion of the impeller and pull it free. You might have to wiggle it a bit to release it from the spindle. Many DIYers prefer a dedicated impeller-pulling tool that fits the pump.


  5. STEP 5

    you don't have a pair of channel lock pliers at hand, or the impeller is well and truly stuck, use a couple of flat-bladed screwdrivers.

    Removing Old Impeller with Flat Screwdrivers

    Use them at 180 degrees to each other, in the manner shown, to lever out the impeller. Take care not to mar the edges of the pump.


  6. STEP 6

    With the impeller out of the way, now is a good time to inspect the pump housing.

    Inspecting Pump Housing

    Give it a good wipe out with a clean rag, then check for deep scoring or other damage. Small scratches and dings are unimportant, but if the body is badly corroded or worn, consider replacing the pump. Most pumps have a raised interior portion to flex the impeller blades. This can be replaced in some pumps; do this if it's worn or the edges are sharp.


  7. STEP 7

    The paper gasket will probably remain stuck either to the pump body or to the cover plate when it's removed.

    Removing Old Paper Gasket

    Use a razor blade or sharp knife to clean it off; don't be tempted to reuse the old gasket, as it will almost certainly leak, and unless the cover-plate seal is airtight, the pump won't work correctly. In the absence of anything else, I've cut a new gasket from an old chart. Instead of the paper gasket, some cover plates have an O-ring, which should be renewed.


  8. STEP 8

    With everything cleaned up, we're now simply working in reverse order.

    Smear Glycerin Inside Pump Body

    Smear a little glycerin onto the inside of the pump body.


  9. STEP 9

    Then smear a little more onto the vanes of the impeller.

    Smear Glycerin on Vanes of Impeller

    The glycerin has two jobs: It makes the impeller slip into the housing, and it also provides much-needed lubrication for the 10 seconds or so until cooling water starts to flow through the pump.


  10. STEP 10

    Slide the new impeller into place, carefully aligning the drive pin with the slot in the shaft and making sure the vanes face in the right direction. Some pumps instead have splines on the shaft that match corresponding splines inside the impeller. Set a new gasket in place making sure that the slight bulge on the inside coincides with the cam on the inside of the pump body.

    Inserting New Impeller and Replacing Paper Gasket

    Some people advocate the use of a nylon cable tie to prebend the vanes to make insertion easier. I've never found this necessary. It could be a good trick for larger pumps with heavy-duty impellers.


  11. STEP 11

    Refit the cover plate and snug the screws or bolts, being careful not to tear the gasket.

    Refit Pump Cover Plate

    Tightening the screws in a star pattern can help you avoid warping the cover, which may cause the pump to leak.


  12. STEP 12

    Finally, fit the pump back onto the engine and secure it with the hardware you removed earlier.

    Fit Pump Back Into Engine

    Then reconnect the hoses. If the pump is belt-driven, there should be about half an inch of deflection in the belt. Too slack, and the belt will slip; too tight, and the pump bearings will wear prematurely.


Guess which is the new impeller?

Pumps stand up to a lot of use and abuse; when this pump was dismantled, it was still working with just one blade left intact, although the owner admitted that it wasn't working quite as it should have been!

New and Old Damage Impellers

Anytime you have a missing or partially missing blades, check downstream of the pump for its remnants, as they may obstruct the cooling flow.

Tech Support

Degree Of Difficulty

Tools

  • Channel lock pliers
  • Screwdrivers
  • Wrenches

Materials

  • Clean rags
  • Glycerin
  • Paper gasket
  • Impeller

Time

This project will take approximately 1-2 hours

Cost

Your only cost will likely be the price of a replacement impeller. Prices vary depending on the size and type of your pump.


Author

Mark Corke

Contributing Editor, BoatUS Magazine

A marine surveyor and holder of RYA Yachtmaster Ocean certification, BoatUS Magazine contributing editor Mark Corke is one of our DIY gurus, creating easy-to-follow how-to articles and videos. Mark has built five boats himself (both power and sail), has been an experienced editor at several top boating magazines (including former associate editor of BoatUS Magazine), worked for the BBC, written four DIY books, skippered two round-the-world yachts, and holds the Guinness World Record for the fastest there-and-back crossing of the English Channel — in a kayak! He and his wife have a Grand Banks 32.

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Sours: https://www.boatus.com/expert-advice/expert-advice-archive/2016/january/water-pump-impeller-service
HOW MUCH DID THE WATER PUMP *COST* ME {MK7 Golf R}

Boating World

Author: Chris Rossell

Here are the items we needed:

– 14 mm socket (and wrench)

– 12 mm socket

– Pliers

– Grease

– Gear lube and pump

– Torque wrench

– Large flathead screwdriver

If you boat long enough, you will eventually tag bottom, especially if you live in the Florida Keys. Earlier this year, we decided to go wakeboarding on our 23-foot Dusky center console, powered by a 2003 Yamaha HPDI 200. The place we always use for skiing is fairly shallow, but the depth is very consistent … or so we thought. Bam! Bam! Bam! Damn! And just like that, our skiing trip was done — just like the stainless steel prop, which was missing most of a blade.

When we replaced the prop, we could see it had some wobble from a bent propshaft. We checked around and found that replacing only the shaft would be close to $1,000 with labor, but other components could also be damaged. We looked at remanufactured lower units, but they cost $2,240. While our Yamaha runs great, that’s a lot of money to spend on a 10-year-old engine, since a good used one costs about $5,000. Then a friend of ours told us about SEI, a company in Oldsmar, Fla., that sells outboard and sterndrive lower units. When we discovered that a new replacement from SEI costs $845 and comes with a three-year warranty — and we could install it ourselves without any special tools — the decision became a no-brainer. Another advantage of doing this yourself is that you will be learning the same procedure for changing your water-pump impeller (enclosed in the white plastic housing on the new unit).

Within a couple of days, our SE421 lower unit arrived, and we went to work. Fortunately, SEI has a step-by-step instruction guide on its website (sterndrive.cc, in the Technical Guides section), so this is a project that’s very doable by anyone with decent mechanical skills.

Before starting work on the outdrive, shift the throttle lever into forward and remove the prop. Next, look on the top rear of the outdrive; remove the plastic access panel and use a 12 mm socket wrench to remove the bolt (photo 1) that holds the trim tab, which is used to minimize prop torque. After the trim tab is off, use a 14 mm socket to remove the bolt underneath (photo 2). Just in front of where the tab was mounted is another bolt that you remove with the same 14 mm socket.Replacing a Damaged Lower UnitBW_11-2013_DIY_02

Next, remove the water-pump hose attachment from the upper unit, then remove the six bolts that clamshell the upper and lower units together, using a 14 mm closed-end wrench to make sure you don’t strip the nut head (photo 3). A word of caution: If the bolts don’t come off easily, don’t apply too much force, because you can break the bolt off. To make removing the bolts easier, we tapped them a few times with a hammer, sprayed them with PB Blaster and let them sit. The new lower unit we got didn’t include bolts, so we reused the old ones, which were in good shape after being cleaned. We had to wiggle the lower unit back and forth a little to get the two sections apart, but it came off easily.BW_11-2013_DIY_03

Use pliers to turn the shaft counterclockwise until it stops, so you can shift it into forward to match the shifter, taking care not to damage the shaft splines. We used Red “N” Tacky to grease the driveshaft, taking care not to lube the very end, per the instructions. Grease any protruding pins as well as the water-pump hose hole before threading the hose through it.

Slide the lower unit carefully into place. There are alignment pins on the new unit, to make sure it seats properly, so make sure they line up (photo 4). If the splines of the new unit don’t seem to be matching up with the hidden gear of the upper unit, slip on a prop and gently spin it counterclockwise until it matches. Attach the water pump hose to the upper unit.BW_11-2013_DIY_05

Hand tighten all six connecting bolts. Then alternately tighten them with a 14 mm wrench (photo 5). If you have a torque wrench, all the bolts on this unit should be tightened to 29 pound-feet.BW_11-2013_DIY_06

Install the trim tab (which we recycled from the old unit) by first inserting the lower bolt and tightening it. Then install the other bolt just in front of it. Position the trim tab, and screw the upper bolt into place, then replace the plastic access cover.

Fill the gearcase with lube, which we got from SEI for $10. To do this, take off the upper and lower screws, and fill it from the bottom using the pump until lube seeps out of the upper hole (photo 6). Wipe everything clean and put in the upper screw. Unscrew the pump fitting from the lower hole (the lube won’t come out as long as the upper is in place), and install the lower screw.BW_11-2013_DIY_07

According to SEI, the break-in routine is very important. We varied our speed every five minutes and didn’t go above 75 percent throttle until after the first five hours of use. During those hours, we shifted into reverse more than 10 times. Then, between hours five and 10 we occasionally went full throttle. Between hours 10 and 20, we changed the gear lube. The next day, we were out hunting for lobster and fishing in the Gulf Stream, catching mahi mahi.

Sours: https://www.boatingworld.com/diy/replacing-a-damaged-lower-unit-2/

Pump replacement cost boat water

Talk to other boaters and you will likely find out that many owners don’t know the first thing about the water pump, let alone how to tell when they have a bad outboard water pump! Yet, this vital component must be serviced regularly to maintain the longevity of your outboard.

A bad outboard water pump will produce lower water pressure than normal. The outboard can stop pumping water out the tell-tale, begin to overheat, restrict the available RPM allowed, and cause significant damage if not corrected.

Thankfully, you can service the water pump to ensure it runs smoothly. In many cases, it’s just a matter of changing out the water pump impeller!

What is an Outboard Water Pump?

Outboard water pumps aren’t complicated. It is located just above the lower gear case assembly, making it easy to service.

Inside the pump housing, there is a rubber impeller that is keyed to the driveshaft.

As water enters into the lower gear case via the inlets on the side of the lower unit, the driveshaft will turn the pump impeller.

This pump then draws water from the intakes into the housing. Impeller blades, or vanes, touch the liner as the driveshaft rotates.

As the engine starts to rev up, these blades back away from the liner. The pump sends out water from the top of the housing with a brass tube.

This travels up through the engine’s power head, ensuring it circulates into the cooling passages of the engine.

How Do I Know if My Boat Water Pump is Bad?

The most obvious way to tell if the outboard water pump is failing is to watch for the engine to overheat. However, this problem can be caused by a number of issues, which is why it’s vital to test for a bad outboard water pump.

How Do You Test an Outboard Water Pump?

On many outboards, you can simply put on the muffs and start the engine. You should see a steady stream of water coming out of the holes on the top of the engine.

However, some brands do pump out a stream, but it might not look steady. While this can be alarming, it is perfectly normal for those models. It just depends on what type of outboard you have.

It is also important to remember that while on the muffs. Some of those models will not produce enough vacuum to push water out of the tell tale or the holes on the top of the lower unit.

That is because there is less water pressure from the garden hose and the muffs. Than there is when the engine is in the water and has the back pressure of the water where the lower unit is fully submerged in the water. Forcing the impeller to be under the water.

You can also look on your gauge, depending on the type of gauges you have on your boat. A lot of newer models will show you the water pressure being produced right there on your gauge!

Most impellers at idle will produce anywhere from 1-3 PSI at idle. Then up to 20-25 PSI at wide-open-throttle! This does change depending on the age, RPM, and model of outboard and impeller though.

If you are unsure how the outboard water pump is functioning, it doesn’t hurt to change the impeller. It should be changed often anyway and is the leading cause of water pump failure.

Why is My Outboard Not Pumping Water?

Outboard motors don’t need a complicated system to push water through the engine’s cooling passages. The simple design ensures that the temperature is always maintained and the engine doesn’t overheat.

If you notice that water has stopped circulating normally, you want to take action immediately before permanent damage occurs.

Here are four steps to take now.

Step #1: Check the Water Pump Impeller

Most circulation issues and overheating engines are caused by a faulty water pump impeller. This small, round disc has spinning blades that move water through the unit.

If it breaks, it stops supplying water to the engine, which results in overheating.

Because this part is inexpensive and easy to install, it’s best to keep a spare handy. In fact, it should be changed often as part of your outboard boat maintenance procedures.

Step #2: Evaluate the Water Intake

With the boat engine off, inspect for any debris, such as trash or weeds, which could be blocking water intake.

If you see a foreign object present, remove it now. Then, restart the engine to see if the problem is resolved.

Step #3: Inspect the Water Output

With the majority of outboard motors, there is a water output. This small tube can easily become blocked.

When this occurs, the water flow is disrupted, causing trouble to the engine.

Take a thin piece of wire and run it through the output. Wiggle it around to dislodge any debris that might be inside.

Your water flow should appear steady in most outboards. You also want the water coming out to be warm, but not excessively hot.

Step #4: Check the Thermostat

While this isn’t a common issue, it is something else to check. Obviously, if the engine isn’t getting warm enough to maintain temperature, you want to replace the outboard thermostat immediately.

If you don’t, you face ruining the power head altogether.

What Happens When Impeller Goes Bad?

In many cases, the water pump failure is actually a result of a bad impeller. What is the impeller?

The impellers pump cold water into the engine, so it cools down.

The impeller is a series of rubber vanes that are molded around a hub. These flexible vane tips wear out for several reasons, none of which can be prevented.

Additionally, if the outboard motor sits unused, the impeller can become brittle and stiff, rendering it unusable.

What’s worse is when the impeller is run dry. Water is needed to lubricate the impeller. In these conditions, it can go bad in just a couple of seconds.

Catching trouble with the impeller early is your best bet. Otherwise, there could be catastrophic damage to the engine as it overheats.

Here are a few signs to watch for:

Overheating Outboard

If the motor temperature starts to climb, you should be concerned. Your problem could be due to a bad impeller.

Additionally, you want to examine the cooling water outlet, which is located on the bottom rear of your motor’s top cowling. If you have had the boat in storage, it’s likely that pests have taken up home in that area.

Reduced Water Stream from Cooling Water Outlet or Tell Tale

When the stream of water is reduced, there could be a blockage. Insert a thin wire into the outlet to confirm your suspicion.

If you have had the boat out previously without problems, you might have a damaged pump housing instead. Look for a hole in your water pump.

Plus, if the pressure has simply dropped, you might find that a damaged or worn impeller is the source of trouble.

Lack of Service for Impeller

If you haven’t changed out the impeller recently, you might want to replace it now. Inspect the water pump as you make your seasonal preparations.

Check the manufacturer’s recommendations to find out how often to change your impeller. Some suggest yearly, while others allow up to three years.

Whatever the time frame is, don’t neglect this vital maintenance step!

How Often Should You Change Your Outboard Water Pump?

It really depends on how you run it and what the manufacturer suggests. You shouldn’t have to change the water pump itself, but the impeller should be a top concern.

For example, if you run skinny and tend to pump a lot of sand, you will need to change the impeller more frequently than other boaters.

The majority of manufacturers and mechanics suggest that you shouldn’t go more than three years with the current impeller intact. Otherwise, the bolts on the lower unit could cease up, leading to more wear to the impeller.

Others suggest it’s wise to change the impeller every season, just to be safe.

How Much Does it Cost to Replace an Outboard Water Pump?

You can purchase most water pump repair kits for under $100, which include the impeller. If you can install this yourself, you would save a lot of money.

Otherwise, a shop might charge you an hour or two, which could result in an hourly rate from $100 to $350, depending on where you take it.

If you choose to perform your own outboard water pump service, here are the steps to follow.

Step #1: Drain the Oil

Begin by draining the oil from the gearbox. Use a large screwdriver to unscrew the drain plug. Make sure you have a pan underneath to catch the oil.

Unscrew the upper oil-level plug as well, to allow air into the gearbox.

Step #2: Remove Nuts

Remove all of the nuts holding the lower unit in place. Most outboards have four to seven nuts or bolts. If your socket doesn’t fit, use a ring wrench instead.

If the lower unit is free, remove it. Otherwise, you might need to give it a few taps with a soft mallet. Just don’t hit the flange cavitation plates or they will break.

Step #3: Slide off the Seal

Once the bottom is clear, it’s time to start on the pump. Slide off the seal, which is sitting on top of the pump housing.

Step #4: Remove Pump Housing Bolts

Use a ring wrench to unscrew the bolts holding the pump housing in place. If the pump hasn’t been serviced recently, you might need the help of an impact wrench instead.

Whatever you do, don’t take the bolts off with an open-ended wrench. This is because you can put too much force on the bolt head and it’s a lot easier to snap the head off and then you will have a whole other problem to deal with!

Separate the housing. Slide it up the shaft. Make sure you remove the plate.

Step #5: Inspect the Impeller

All of the vanes on the impeller should be intact and straight. If they require replacement, now is the time.

Step #6: Clean Surfaces

Take time to clean off all of the mating surfaces. This practice ensures there won’t be any leaks.

If there are large bits of sealant or gasket that need to be removed, use a sharp razor blade.

For smaller contaminants, fine emery paper should do the trick.

When you are finished, wipe it down with a clean rag. Everything should look bright and new.

Next, you can wipe the pump housing interior. There should be no gouges or score marks.

This is a good time now with the oil out and the seals exposed. To perform a lower unit pressure test, to see if any of the seals are leaking before reassembling everything!

Step #7: Reassemble with New Parts

When you purchase a water pump repair kit, you get a new impeller, as well as the seals, O-rings and gaskets.

Once everything is cleaned, use the new parts for reassembly.

Use some of the gasket sealing compound and lower your gasket into place. Make sure every hole is properly lined up.

You also want to install a new key. This sits in the flat part on the shaft.

If you are putting on a new impeller, line up the key way in the hub with the previously used key.

You can also use some glycerin or dish washing liquid to get the pump cover on easier. This also provides some lubrication for the first few seconds before the water gets into the pump. Never use silicone.

Step #8: Reassemble

As you slide the housing down, ease it over the vanes while twisting the shaft clockwise. This motion allows the blades to bend while sitting the body of the pump fully down on its base plate gasket.

Reinstall all of the bolts and tighten them until each is snug. Slide the new seal down until it is resting against the pump housing.

The kit should also include a setting tool, which you will use to push down on the top of the seal. Not only will this spread it out, but it makes sure there isn’t too much compression.

Put a small amount of engine spline coupling grease to the top of the drive shaft. Add a little more grease to the gear-shift coupler.

Step #9: Refill Gearbox

Replace the screw plugs and reinstall the lower unit. Make sure you don’t over tighten any of the nuts.

Use the right oil to fill the gearbox.

As with any service, you want to test the parts once the job is complete. Run your outboard, carefully monitoring the stream of water. Everything should be running smoothly now.

Here are a couple of videos to show some of these process’s!

Check Us Out!

If you are noticing signs of a bad outboard water pump, go through our article to troubleshoot the issues. We want to make sure everything is running well with your outboard, which is why we provide lots of tips and tricks on our YouTube channel.

You can also find blog articles that address a variety of needs, from maintenance to repair. Make the most out of your time boating with our help.

Signs of a Bad Outboard Lower Unit & What to Do Next

Should You Flush Your Outboard? Essential Boat Maintenance Tips

The Different Sections Of An Outboard & How They Work

Sours: https://www.bornagainboating.com/bad-outboard-water-pump/
Does your Boat Outboard Water Pump and Impeller Need Replacing?

They left the entrance, and the frost grabbed their faces again. Thorny snow fell from the sky. The three of them turned into the street. Under the lanterns, one could see fine snow falling obliquely towards the ground in streaks of bluish light.

Now discussing:

He asked about his feelings, but I did not feel any discomfort through it. He said that it is necessary to observe him, if so all the time, then this is my norm. And then, as if it happened, what was expected. Now undress. I will listen to the heart and the lungs.



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